document.write(''); There have also been a number of stories of the appalling way some care workers have treated the residents so this has also unfairly soured their general image in the minds of many. Later, in an effort to give their marriage another chance, she joined Robert Kasabian in Hippie Hangouts of Topanga Canyon, Los Angeles, California where he was friends with Charles Blackbeard Melton. "Journey into Darkness" is a good start. Oh and I don't think the events are clear long before Jay Sebring is shot. In August 1969, she was instructed by Charles Manson to carry a knife, a change of clothing, and her drivers license and drive the family members Charles Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, and Patricia Krenwinkel to 10050 Cielo Drive, the residence of famous director Roman Polanski and his eight-months-pregnant wife, Sharon Tate. How many of us became murderers or aided and abetted murder? There is an interesting quote from Fleischmann in an issue of the Free Press prior to Kasabian becoming the star witness. At least ONE Black man personally died in the jungles of Vietnam so HE could get a FREE Blow-Job. The problem of course is that Bugliosi does not want that answer. When I've told people of how I came to be living there and what I experienced in those 4 years and how I got away, people think it's ever such a dramatic tale. She was instructed to wait outside and stand guard, while the rest went inside and killed Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski and Abigail Folger. Then I put it together with Irving Kanarek bringing June Emmers down to testify as to what a liar Linda was and some of the other things the defence exposed about her and despite Robert's point about the guy that spent 30 years inside because his lawyer never had his gun checked to see whether the bullets matched, I find it extremely difficult to believe that she was going to lie about the licence, especially as it was so easy to check on it and it would have severely dented her credibility. Hardly surprising given the dramatic nature of the cast of characters. Robert, Robert, Robert, I'm really confused. Before I graduated my draft lottery number was 289. People V. Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, & Van Houten, Manson Life-Style Changes After Move From Death Row, Manson Follower Recalls His Life of Crime at Sanity Hearing, No 'Family' Exists, Media Created It Manson Testifies, 'You Better Pray I Never Get Out,' Manson Friend Tells Sanity Trial, 4 Manson Followers Convicted in Hawthorne Robbery-Shootout. Given that she says all this in more or less the same group of sentences {in Robert's book}, which is it ? ME thinks there might be a REAL story there. I hope I do thatI think you do.This is a good piece. document.write(''); The Vietnam WAR and those that "served" and those that didn't is NOW becoming a subject of contention. The LicenseThe license is a bit of a red herring. But is like a badge of honor to people to refuse to give H.S any weight at allAnd it just seems strange to me that nobody is willing to consider it at all, as even a possibility, when all of the actual killers themselves have repeated the validation that it was for over 40 years with the exact same stories, and memories.you can hear the shame, embarrassment, and humiliation in the voice of a sobered up- middle aged Leslie Van Houten as she tries to explain H/S and the "Hole in the Desert" to her parole boards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE8_N-eBm_4Bill Clinton in London during 'Nam was a CIA plant who spied on the Anti-war protesters. Now you seem to be hating on John McCain who enlisted, was shot down, and tortured at the Hanoi Hilton. I would have testified without a deal" translates when the evidence is revealed to 'I'm not talking even if the sky falls (but I will for immunity)". Anyone?Or..to paraphrase others: Life is going to knock you on your ass from time to time. Then and there ? Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. Hey, there are some similarities to Manson. Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilities.For example: Bugliosi had a problem. Of course that's his job. If Kasabian was what you are implying here, Nader would be dead and with Clem and Sadie as accomplices, no one would be any the wiser. Lets say Charlie did orchestrate the crimes and he had some private or secret motivation only a very few were aware of. So even if Kasabian was a Hippy, when pared down to essentials, Hippiedom was hardly presented as an advert for something wholesome. She was in search of love, freedom and God. You'd do it if you were a lawyer ! Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. Many people came into the family and many left. Like the silly hitchhiking story about Wilson, I now wonder if her account of meeting with the Spahn circle wasn't another white wash. St Circumstance saidThe "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like.It's paradoxical. Stuff that made her look like everything from a slag to a thief to a patient suffering from some form of mental illness to an unfit Mum to a junkie stealing from her Dad. Eventually, Linda moved to Boston where she married a man named Robert Kasabian. It was the general consensus at the end of '69/start of '70 that the prosecution had a very weak case. We don't know you wouldn't strangle a Granny or torch a house while it's occupants are asleep.We don't know she didn't take part in acts of violence. If you really want my opinion- to me it confirms she had no intention of testifying. It was through Charles Melton that she came into contact with Catherine Gypsy Share, a member of Manson family. There are so many times when he asks Linda if she has understood the question. Back then British law was tough. But she testified against great danger. Of course, I never thought she was an innocent flower child, like VB made her out to be, but he needed her as a witness. Robert Hendrickson said"robbery" gone BAD.Well Dah ! "I am here because I wanted to tell the truth. Susan herself brought it up when speaking initially with Howard & Graham. Lynn,I love a story with a good narrator and Bill's voice is excellent for what he does. Dreath saidI think there is a tendency to look at Kasabian's involvement through the lens provided by what we know (or believe or have been told to believe ) from where we sit todayThere's a lot of truth in that. BUT even self-hate can have positive results and be a driving force for good.Supposedly there has been ONLY one person planted on this earth who was ALL good, but even HE committed assault & battery on "innocent" victims. That was given, was a givenI committed to what Tex said."Which, I guess, tells one anything, something or nothing. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. Granted, the residents could be difficult and particularly nasty to those that were not English {ie, most of them} but they can't all have been 'off' days ! After they are convicted they need to embrace the official narrative or they don't get outYet the reality is that Bobby Beausoleil, Pat Krenwinkel, Charles Watson, Bruce Davis, Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten have all subsequently deviated from the official record. When really, the main reason most people hate them is that they represent a male patriarchy. In a 2009 docu-drama by Cineflex, she elaborated her story for the first time in detail. Goddamn I am tripping back to like 1998. Charlie out and free. With Mackenzie Mauzy, Eden Brolin, Grace Victoria Cox, Greer Grammer. Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. So many people make so many arguments about how unfair life has been to them. But if he did use Helter Skleter to motivate the others to do the crimes for him, and those who actually did the killing- thought they were doing it in the name of Helter Skleter.Which is the real motive? On a different note: RH- nice post. But she never says she took the wallet, though the general assumption was that she had. Dreath, I seem to agree with most things you have said.Does it carry any weight with you that The Actual Killers say they want there to ignite H/S?? I care what holes there are in her testimony and where those holes actually lead. Atkins remembers seeing Pat struggle with Abigail but can't recall the exact sequence of things where she was concerned or how she ended up crawling on the lawn as they were about to leave. What does that refer to ? She told Richard Caballero that on LaBianca night, there were to be 2 death squads. Just the ones with that certain type of character. She admits to getting into the car and being struck by the body being there but the spirit not. Bugliosi said. var part2 = "mansonblog.com"; Dreath saidDo I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. AKA: Linda Christian, Yana the Witch, Linda Chiochios. At the age of sixteen, she married but it ended in a divorce. But that's a subjective judgement. "Who was watching Sharon Tate?Opinion: "That just don't make no sense". Two people had spread that around long before Linda herself was even arrested. 3. He reinforced it was alright to act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had. She said Manson supposedly announced it was "time" (seemingly out of the blue) for Helter Skelter. But a vote for a real mass murderer like Clinton is the better choice. The argument was not made at the Manson et al trial. I do feel in those cases- had they gone along those nights I would still put them away- but I could get the understanding after all these years of why people would feel bad for them.By the way ever see what Ruth ended up looking like as an adult? No other reason.". Her parents divorced and remarried when Linda was still young. I'm not saying the 'Linda kites in Charlie speak' didn't happen, just that I don't believe that had anything to do with Susan recanting. Linda and Robert had a daughter named Tanya in 1968. "We'd got the indictments. So WHY go the distance. It should also lead us directly to Charles Manson (a loving father to HIS Family and a Natural Born KILLER to many others.Like no other time in History, WE are discovering new facts concerning just what makes the Human Brain tick and hopefully it won't be much longer until WE finally understand exactly why human beings do the "terrible" things THEY do.AND of course, that understanding will eventually lead to a sense of awareness in humans paralleled in all of history. Charlie went back to where he'd spent most of his life; I don't believe that he wanted to be there but I think he's long been pragmatic about jail. I only decide how I wanna feel. She later became the prosecutions chief witness against Charles Manson and his followers after the 1969Tate-LaBianca murders. Manson, the mastermind criminal with an "uncanny ability" to brainwash people sent a girl who was on the ranch for a only a few weeks out on a murder mission, and didn't tell her the plan apparently.because she was licensed to drive?NOW. It was done with no thought, " may offer a window into the confusion and their lack of planning and co~ordination. Dec. 3, 1969, Concord, N.H. - Linda Kasabian, right, covers her face as Los Angeles Police woman Joan Simpson escorts her from Court House to start the trip back to California. var part3 = "Deb at Mansonblog dot com"; Sympathy is something that just doesn't make sense to me. But kids were revered in the Family which made Tonya safer. Why ?Lo' and be hold, Bugliosi had a perfect scenario to answer this very important questionYou make it sound like he made it up ! That's the point lol. It really does bear examination. He admits things now but this is not "incarceration '69/70. Linda Kasabian, born in Biddeford, Maine on June 21, 1949, is a former member of the Charles Manson Family. But always focusing on credibility and reliability of a witness can lead to an assumption that if they aren't reliable, that they aren't telling the truth or if they can be shown to be not credible, that whatever they say shouldn't really be entertained. Was HE dropping Naplam on little girls running for cover down the road ?Linda K. is the perfect choise for examination IF you want to discover a more human side of the Manson Family Story. Her testimony eventually led to their conviction. The Last of the Manson Girls, Sharon Tate-The Biography Sharon Tate Book 2011, The Manson File- Myth and Reality of an Outlaw Shaman, Vanity Fair April 2011 interview w/Charlie in Spanish. There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes. THUS, when America finally converts to a pure "socialist" society, "money won't mean anything" and "Helter Skelter" will become a moot issue in such a highly progressive society.BTW; It was Charles Manson who said: "money won't mean anything and the people on the bottom will be on the top." Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). AustinAnn74 saidI never thought she was an innocent flower childOf her being a Hippie he commented that "if any witness was ever placed under a microscope, it was Linda Kasabian, and I am convinced that each and every one of you saw the same thing under that microscope, a young hippie girl whose aimless drug oriented life tragically led her to Spahn Ranch, Charles Manson, and two nights of murder ~ two nights of horror"Hippies were not seen as the vanguard of morality or these nice folk that straight society looked to as the shining example of what young people were to be. Over time, she has been depicted by numerous actresses in different movies. So did Hitler. St Circumstance saidThat's the point lol. I think we agree again. And perhaps whatever incident was going down with each of them at that moment, it took precedence over Sharon. We believe there to be more than one motive. Of course there could have been alternative possibilities. Clearly, in his eyes he is as highly qualified to judge as God. Dreath saidyou have a tendency to 'move the goal posts' which makes responding to you rather difficultIf by that you mean that I seem to jump around on the subjects and quotes I'll comment on, that's true. lol your insight is interesting reading.. It's not a fair or valuable trait to have.we are trained to disregard the Parry Mason notion of courtrooms: someone actually out and out lying on the witness standThat makes good sense and allows for nuances. How did Linda's teachers report on her behavior? I liked your book and you- but don't agree with your conclusions :). Everyone is entitled to their own opinions including ones that don't jibe with mine. Or was she there to cheek, or kester the comatose, old duff's meds? Susan Denise Atkins aka Sadie Mae Glutz is a former member of the Charles Manson "Family". This marriage too did not prove to be stable and Linda Kasabian returned to stay with her mother in New Hampshire. Granted, not everyone becomes a murderer because of a rough passage in a part of one's life, but to be honest, that's no argument, because some do.But this isn't an appeal to feel sorry for anyone, just an observation that life contains nuances that are neither easy to explain nor simple to dismiss. If that had been the motive, there wouldn't have been any need to stab Voytek Frykowski fifty-one times, to hit him thirteen times over the head and shoot him twice. Linda married again, this time to a hippie named Robert Kasabian. There is simply no hard and fast rule for this. MM said: About the license, it had to be expired.Good one. Go figure that one out.NOW, thank God, the whole issue of heroes, sacrifice and cowards is finally coming out of the closet. The next night, she again drove the family including the previous night members as well as Charles Manson, Leslie Van Houten and Steve Grogan to the house of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, rich owners of a grocery store chain. Now, when you say the middle of the night do you mean 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning or do you mean midnight? var part1 = "deb"; My apologies Dreath. Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it. Her association with substance abusers was still the same. (click for details). When I put this thing together while the high school stuff was fun, for me the heart of the matter was the 'Odyssey' article. When Larry King asked her if at any point she asked Manson why are we doing this and why are these people being killed, she was at a total loss for words until Bugliosi spoke up and answered for her. So did she really have a valid license as was presented in court? She mentioned to the Grand Jury that there were to be 2 death squads. Fresh meat! Sandy Good said that on a talk show she was on with George and Patti and I think Bugs might have been there too.Thanks though. If it comes out that a witness has two convictions, one for bestiality involving a local horse and the other for sexually abusing one of their siblings, the other side will lean hard on that. Whether Linda engaged in any violence or had the ability to do so isn't the big question here. Both have different conclusions.I don't know what you get from that but I know what I get from that. Pat too- and their stories are all the same after all these years.I ask myself these things when telling myself it cant be H/S because everyone in TLB land says so.. St Circumstance saidGeorge and Schreck have spoken to all the people around the killersAnd yet are no more agreed on the motive. She was the chief witness at the prosecution of Manson and his followers for the Tate LaBianca murders. I know that "the human side" is used to denote the lean towards goodness, softness, something of redeeming value. If you are saying he is wrongly in jail..As soon as Manson enters the LaBianca house, ties them up, tells them not to worry it is only a robbery he is done as soon as someone is murdered, especially IF he then told the rest to kill them but even if he didn'tThat, my friend, is felony murder and, no, it doesn't matter you, personally, didn't 'intend' to kill anyone. As these are total strangers- I feel pity only for those who actually deserve it. So what's your point ? I don't remember did she show a license or maybe she didn't even have one to show? Bugliosi would want that covered up and it was easy for him to do sobecause NONE of them said anything about what took place after LaBianca, until Kasabian got her deal. It is an interesting piece especially given the Odyssey piece. That, of course, rather obviously is directed at Charles Manson. The trial was covered extensively by the media and after it ended, she returned to New Hampshire to be with her husband and children in peace and away from media attention. Sorry, St. but there is nothing in that video where Krenwinkel talks about HS. You said Kreneinkle said it. Linda Kasabian was born Linda Drouin on June 21, 1949 in Biddeford, Maine. Before goofball goes off on Hollywood did I hear her initially say 'she shouldn't have been there'? The charges against her were dropped when she agreed to attend a drug counselling session. She said on that tape she wasn't afraid of getting busted because what she did was right and had to be done. She, like all of us, was/is a flawed person but not totally on the dark side. You are all welcome. The question is why would Atkins leave Sharon, alive and alone, in the house to take this little stroll? Linda Kasahbian supports herself on welfare,for having illegal kids the state has to support---we need less Linda Kasabians!! I can still see Bill Nelson (Molesto)'s banner headline when he did the Lady Dangerous report. The stuff written at Waverley gave the prosecution case legs, backbone and a gravitas it might not otherwise have had.Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter SkelterAlso important and true. She had married a man named Robert Kasabian and given him a daughter with a second child on the way. She had four children. He wants Rudy Weber and the hose at 1:00 but most of all he wants Tim Ireland's description of the scream before 1:00.

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