He was shocked. All comments are moderated before being published. Why? He wondered like many others why Dahmer had become a killer. All of them, he said, had agreed to engage in sexual activity with him. Theyre not looking for sadism," Dr. Hickley said. The police caught him before he could eat more, so I'm sure that means they caught him before he was able to experiment much. To prevent his victims from leaving he would consume their bodies, making them a part of him forever. Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer, aka the Milwaukee Cannibal, is an American serial killer and sex offender, who committed the rape, murder and dismemberment of 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with many of his later murders also involving necrophilia, cannibalism and the permanent preservation of body parts, typically all or part of the skeletal structure. After Dahmers arrest in 1991, when his crimes came to light, many asked that same question. Intervened," Lionel said, adding, "Don't disregard shyness. Days later, after agreeing to pose nude, 24-year-old Oliver Lacy accompanied Dahmer back to his apartment, where Lacy was drugged and then administered chloroform over the course of a day in an attempt to render him alive, but unconscious. Guvnor! In Scarvers telling, things came to a head when they were both assigned to clean a prison gymnasium. Evan Peters stars as the serial killer in the new Netflix series. It starts with watching people sleep, then drugging victims, then you want to be with someone whos buried or unconsciousand it progresses from there. Indeed, Jeffrey explained in the 94 interview with NBC that throughout the course of his crimes, his desire to possess his victims involved more deviant type behavior to satisfy my urges, explaining that the cannibalism made his victims feel them feel like a permanent part of me. After strangling Lacy, Dahmer had sex with the corpse, storing the head and heart in the refrigerator and the skeleton in a freezer. Jeffrey Dahmer confessed to killing 17 young men after he was arrested in 1991. No one. Once again, Dahmer drugged, strangled and dismembered his victim, keeping the head and internal organs in plastic bags in his freezer. Dahmer told the police that the boy, Konerak Sinthasomphone, was his adult lover and that the boy was drunk, and police returned the boy to Dahmer and left without investigating. With interest in Jeffrey Dahmer skyrocketing thanks to the hit Netflix miniseries Dahmer Monster, a journalist who interviewed the Milwaukee Monster in person has revealed the shocking reason why he ate his victims. Why did Jeffrey Dahmer eat people? Dr. Eric Hickey, professor of forensic psychology at Walden University, told A&E that cannibals are different from psychopathic killers. Dahmer eventually convinced attending police that Sinthasomphone was his 19-year-old boyfriend and that they had quarreled after drinking too much. Because the majority of Dahmer's victims were Black, many speculated that Milwaukee police turned a blind eye to the murders because of racismalso pointing to the police's returning of Sinthasomphone, who is Laotian, to Dahmer as evidence. Of course, there is no rhyme or reason to Dahmer's crimes. Well-mannered, soft-spoken and pleasant in appearance, Dahmer barely escaped arrest on multiple occasions during his murderous spree, in which he lured men often on societys fringes back to his home where he would kill and perform acts of necrophilia and cannibalism with their remains, often preserving body parts as mementos. real jeffrey dahmer glasses. Dahmer was known for wearing glasses, so what became of them? She was 64 years old. After two years of unemployment, he began working in a chocolate factory. In 1973, Juan Corona, a California farm laborer, was sentenced to 25 consecutive life sentences for the murders of 25 people found hacked to death in shallow graves. Dahmer once again drilled Sinthasomphones head and injected it with acid, this time with fatal results. His drink of choice was Budweiser beer (how American, right?). Be the first to know about new products, discounts & content. Dahmer was sentenced to 15 consecutive life sentences for his horrific crimes, and was murdered in prison two years later. Dahmer offered Guerrero $50 to return to his grandmothers house and spend the night with him. I still love my son. kennsgal. Brandishing the images, the officer returned to the living room, reportedly saying to his partner: These are for real.. Four days after murdering Lacy, Dahmer was fired from his job. From Dahmer's first arrest to his eventual capture and death, here are the key moments from his 13-year reign of terror. Raymond Lamont "Ricky Beeks" Smith, 32 (1990). Born on May 21, 1960, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer was an American serial killer who operated between 1978 and 1991. It wasnt out of culinary curiosity, thats for sure. Youd think after becoming drunk and killing and eating a victim hed think, whoa, Im not drinking anymmore. She suffered from depression during Dahmer's childhood. As my obsession grew, I was saving body parts such as skulls and skeletons.. He later established a career as a research chemist. The man who beat serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer to death inside a Wisconsin prison says he did it because of Dahmer's creepy sense of humor - which included turning prison food into . Within days of securing a one-bedroom apartment, Dahmer was arrested and charged with second-degree sexual assault and enticing a child for immoral purposes after luring 13-year-old Keison Sinthasomphone back to his apartment, where he drugged and molested the boy before his intended victim escaped, taking his story to the police. Next, find out what your true crime obsession really meansand when it's time to take a break from it. Related: Is The Thing About Pam a True Story? Jeffrey Dahmer Research Papers. Was it, perhaps, medications that were taken at the time of you know, in [his mothers] first trimester? During their investigation, authorities uncovered the dismembered bodies of Dahmer's victims. TwitterDahmers first victim, Steven Hicks, was just 18 when he was murdered. Notorious serial killer .css-47aoac{-webkit-text-decoration:underline;text-decoration:underline;text-decoration-thickness:0.0625rem;text-decoration-color:inherit;text-underline-offset:0.25rem;color:#A00000;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}.css-47aoac:hover{color:#595959;text-decoration-color:border-link-body-hover;}Jeffrey Dahmer shocked the world when he was arrested in 1991, as much for the heinous crimes he committed against his victims, as for the fact that he killed 17 men and boys over more than 13 years without capture. You go at it from a very professional standpoint., She added, When youre youre interviewing a politician. Not only did Dahmer eat his victims, but he admitted to trying to make them into 'sex zombies' before they died. The officers then found many graphic polaroids in an open drawer in Dahmer's bedroom. 32 True Crime Podcasts Worthy of an Immediate Binge-Listen, 30 Best True Crime Documentaries Right Now, 36 Best True Crime Shows & True Crime Series on Netflix. Dahmer had sex with the corpses of his victims and kept the body parts of others, some of which he ate. Dahmer kept parts of Millers body to eat, something he was doing increasingly, and he painted and displayed Miller's head in his apartment. Robert Lee Yates Jr. killed 15 people, most of them between 1996 and 1998. Dahmer was a prolific and particularly brutal serial killer and sexual predator who preyed on young men. Some people who are in prison are repentant, he said. I mean, you can hear the way hes talking to me is very thoughtful, the reporter recalled. Please note that if you purchase something by clicking on a link within this story, we may receive a small commission from the sale. One opinion piece in The Washington Post argues that Dahmer was able to get away with his gruesome crimes for so long because of his tendency to prey on men and boys in minority communities. After photographing and drugging Sinthasomphone, Dahmer again tried to render his victim brain dead by drilling into his skull and inserting acid, leaving the drugged body alongside Hughes corpse while he left the apartment for a few hours. ", He continued: "No, the killing was not the objective. The biographywhich is a part of Rosewoods The Serial Killer Books seriestells the true-crime story of Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer, a serial killer who terrorized Milwaukee, Wisconsin and murdered more than a dozen people (not to mention committed acts of necrophilia and cannibalism) throughout the 1980s until his eventual arrest in 1991. Placing the body in a suitcase, Dahmer transported it to his grandmothers basement where, a week later, he dismembered it and placed it in the trash, except for the head which he retained for a further week before boiling it in industrial detergent and bleach, eventually pulverizing the brittle skull. murdered by Dahmer in July 1991, wrote on Twitter: Prince Harry was suspicious of palace staff, would hold 'l King Charles to evict Harry and Meghan from Frogmore Cottage and give to Andrew, 'Elvis' star Austin Butler was rushed to ER after 'body just started shutting down', Drug-resistant stomach bug spreading across US: 'Serious public health alert', NY teacher forced 5th-grade girl to use male pronouns causing suicidal thoughts: suit, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry have first night out since bombshell Spare released, Jordyn Woods supports Selena Gomez amid singers feud with Kylie Jenner, Hailey Bieber, RHONJ recap: Jennifer Aydin mocks Rachel Fudas terrible nose job, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry have first night out since bombshell 'Spare' released. I dont even know what to say other than that was a relief to hear that he was murdered for revenge from another person. He kept gruesome souvenirs from the. She added that she maintained professional distance and withheld judgment just as she would when interviewing any public figure. It boils down to having total domination and ownership of his victims. He picked up Hicks while the teen was hitchhiking to a rock concert, and took him back to the Dahmer family home in Bath Township, Ohio. We sell limited edition hand drawn serial killer shirts and horror apparel. Dahmer was 18 years old when he committed his first murder: He took a hitchhiker named Steven Hicks back to his father's home; when Hicks tried to leave Dahmer bludgeoned him in the back of the head with a 10-lb. Many of his victims, mostly drifters and runaways, were buried in a crawlspace beneath his suburban Chicago home. When you think of famous American serial killers - Jeffrey Dahmer belongs at the top of the list. Eating their victims gives them a sense of power because their victims can never leave.. Stefan R.s horrific crime echoes that of an earlier one from 2001, where Armin Meiwes invited Bernd-Jurgen Brandesto his apartment. Someone good-looking, really nice looking. Hoping his grandmother would be a tempering influence on their son's ongoing drinking, Dahmer's parents sent him to live with her in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. A Warner Bros. You guys interview how many people? Glass explained while describing her process. Steven Hicks was the first, but far from the last, of Jeffrey Dahmers victims. After taking their life, Jeffrey said he had these obsessive desires and thoughts wanting to control them, to, I dont know how to put it, possess them permanently, during an episode of Inside Edition in 1993. After the men were arrested for shoplifting, police found bullets and a silencer in their car and took them into the police station for questioning. He was cremated and his ashes were given to his family. Jeffrey Dahmer, (born May 21, 1960, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.died November 28, 1994, Portage, Wisconsin), American serial killer whose arrest in 1991 provoked criticism of local police and resulted in an upsurge of popular interest in serial murder and other crimes. Apparently, hed left his last pair in his prison cell before Scarver murdered him. Williams was convicted and sentenced to two life terms in 1982. Once he fried the biceps of a man in oil, used a meat tenderizer and ate the muscle because it was big and he wanted to try it, police Detective Dennis Murphy said, according to the Associated Press. According to Ratcliff, one of the prison guards once told him that Dahmer would whisper to the guard stationed outside his cell: "I bite.". Konerak Sinthasomphone. After taking Steven Tuomi, 24, back to a hotel room, Dahmer says he awoke the following morning to find Tuomi dead alongside him in bed. He later said that Hicks murder was not planned, though he admitted that hed had fantasies of picking up a hitchhiker and controlling him. I have nothing to say.. I- WTF was wrong with this man. Here's why his belongings were sold, Where is Christopher Scarver now? Authorities searched Dahmer's home and found Polaroid photographs of his victims and their dismembered bodies. "They simply want access to the body.". The first killing was not planned, Dahmer told Inside Edition in 1993. Asked following his arrest if he was glad it was over, Dahmer stated he was not glad, that he liked his lifestyle and found it exciting and thrilling, according to FBI files. After drugging Smith at his North 25th St. apartment, Dahmer strangled him with his hands before taking Polaroid pictures of the corpse in suggestive poses. In one incident in May 1991, a 14-year-old boy that Dahmer lobotomized escaped his apartment; three young women approached police to help the boy. After reading these disturbing facts about Jeffrey Dahmer, discover the true story behind serial killer Ted Bundy. When authorities asked Dahmer if it would be possible to lead a normal life if he were ever released, the murderer responded that the best place for him was prisonbecause if he ever got out, he would go right back to the same behavior, including killing. Dahmer strangled the boy soon after he re-entered the apartment. He was convicted of six murders in 2007, and he is serving a life sentence. Church leader Roy Ratcliff was living in Milwaukee, Wisconsin where Dahmer carried out the murders when he was contacted to perform a baptism on the serial killer. He said their victims' deaths are generally quick. He then killed Anderson, who was working in a different room. Thanks for contacting us. I was branching out, thats when the cannibalism started, Dahmer explained. In fact, he even served human meat to his neighbours . In a separate story, the Post quotes Dahmers former prison minister as saying the convict would make jokes about this cannibalistic past. He said: "I created this horror and it only makes sense I do everything to put an end to it." Returning in the early hours of the following morning, Dahmer discovered a groggy Sinthasomphone sitting outside the apartment building with three women huddled around him. Ted Bundy raped and killed at least 16 young women in the early to mid-1970s before he was executed in 1989. They start experimenting with sexual fantasies about voyeurism and necrophilia, and as theyre fantasizing they explore that behavior. Dig. Forensic psychologists and true crime fans alike are intrigued by what motivates a man like him and we have to wonder why Jeffrey Dahmer wanted to eat his victims. Dahmer committed his first murder in Bath township, Ohio, in 1978. Dahmer told me that he would kill me, Edwards later said of the harrowing encounter, according to PEOPLE. It just filled my thoughts all day long.". Related: Where Is Lori Vallow Daybell From Sins of Our Mother Now? All of Jeffrey Dahmers known victims were male. In 1994, Dahmer was murdered by his fellow inmate Christopher Scarver. The accused killed the victim because he sought sexual satisfaction through the killing and wanted to eat parts of the corpse, the prosecution alleged on the first day of the trial, according to the New York Post. Lucas was the only inmate spared from execution by Texas Gov. Dahmers first victim, Steven Hicks, was just 18 when he was murdered. Jeffrey Dahmers grandmother, Catherine, died on December 25, 1992, at age 88. Jeffrey was also araging alcoholic, which contributes to the exact number of victims eaten being vague. In a sketch, he demonstrated that he would have adorned a table with skulls and incense and placed two skeletons either side of it. Usually the guard would jump away and that would make Jeff laugh., He sort of played with his persona to exaggerate it and make people more fearful, Ratcliff said. Dahmer had a variety of jobs throughout his life. Wayne Williams killed at least two men between 1979 and 1981, and police believed he might have been responsible for more than 20 other deaths in the Atlanta area. Notorious serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer shocked the world when he was arrested in 1991, as much for the heinous crimes he committed against his victims, as for the fact that he killed 17 men and. He then placed Bradehofts head in the refrigerator. No one can ever really understand why Dahmer resorted to cannibalism, but theories abound. The TV broadcaster had famously spoken to the then-imprisoned killer in 1993 for the TV show Inside Edition, marking the first time Dahmer had been interviewed in public since receiving a life sentence for his crimes. I wasn't tuned to that in the '50s and '60s, especially with men, you weren't really taught to be a psychologist.". The Story Of Jamison Bachman, The 'Worst Roommate Ever' Who Ended Up In Jail For Murder, 11 Of The Weirdest News Stories That Made Headlines In 2022, What Stephen Hawking Thinks Threatens Humankind The Most, 27 Raw Images Of When Punk Ruled New York, Join The All That's Interesting Weekly Dispatch, Curt Borgwardt/Sygma/Sygma via Getty Images. Here's why his belongings were sold. As shown in Dahmer - Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story, Jeffrey Dahmer was a real-life serial killer who was found guilty of killing 17 men, dismembering their bodies and committing cannibalism and necrophilia. Jeffrey Dahmer: A Terrifying True Story of Rape, Murder & Cannibalism also takes readers through Dahmers murder trial, his death at the hands of his fellow inmates and how his crimes rocked Milwaukee for decades to come. There just wasnt an opportunity to fully express what I wanted to do. February 27, 2023 equitable estoppel california No Comments . Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer, seen after his 1982 arrest for indecent exposure, confessed to killing 17 men Recounts: Seen from left, Police Detective Patrick Kennedy, Dahmer's neighbor. More than six years younger than Jeffrey, David was often the subject of his brothers jealousy and resentment. Of some 2,000 serial killersthat is, killers defined by their multiple victims over a period of timeits estimated only between five and 10 are cannibals. Weve gotten very close since his arrest, he told Oprah Winfrey in 1994. He also had a poster in his cell that read CannibalsAnonymous Meeting Here Tonight. Dahmers grandmother had become annoyed with his bringing men to her house late at nightand with the foul smells emanating from the basementso she eventually told him to move out. In a 1993 interview with Inside, Dahmer said that he wanted to "possess" his victims permanently. Dahmer was finally caught after he brought a man named Tracy Edwards home to his apartment, allegedly offering him cash to stay. Answer (1 of 8): Yes, notorious serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer did indeed eat a number of his victims. Dahmer's neighbors had also repeatedly complained about the smells and sounds coming from his apartment to no avail. It was a place where I could feel at home." The glasses that Dahmer wore in prison went up for sale for $150,000 in 2022. chilling images from serial killers homes. Was it environmental, genetic? Bank of England head Andrew Bailey has left money markets in chaos, Major update in Alex Jones' Sandy Hook trial as court rules he must pay enormous damages. He drilled holes in some and poured acid into everything he could, because he wanted to create a zombie.. Jeffrey Dahmer's Cannibalism Explained. Dahmer lived at her Wisconsin home on and off in the 1980s. The court heard how Brandes had originally replied to a March 2001 internet posting by Meiwes seeking a well-built male for slaughter and consumption, per The Guardian. Dahmer was murdered by an inmate in jail. On entering the bedroom, one officer noticed a partially open drawer filled with Polaroid pictures of numerous bodies in differing states of dismemberment. Suspected serial killer Jeffrey L. Dahmer enters the courtroom of Judge Jeffrey A. Wagner on Aug. 6, 1991. Some of which he consumed. After a sample was secretly collected from a relative, DeSalvo's body was exhumed in July 2013 for more DNA testing. As they talked, Dahmer started to share the gruesome aspects of the murders. Since 1978 when he was 18, Dahmer had murdered and dismembered 17 boys and men. He told the Post that he killed Dahmer and another inmate, Jesse Anderson, after an altercation while they were together unsupervised on a work detail. Several skulls were recovered at his apartment with drill holes in them, and he confessed to pouring acid inside their skulls and raping them while incapacitated. Image: CreateSpace Independent Publishing. He only ate human meat once: part of the bicep from a dancer he killed. Turner was later convicted and sentenced to death for four more murders. Yes, he did kill a deaf man, and his name was Tony Hughes. Sears was the first victim from whom Dahmer took trophies, storing and preserving Sears head and genitals, which he kept in a wooden box. Scarver was convicted of killing Dahmer on November 28, 1994. Of those nine years without a victim, Dahmer said the urge was always there; what he lacked were the right circumstances. She Died In A Mysterious Where Is Buster Murdaugh Now? 2. 2023 Cable News Network. dumbbell. Dahmer would kill 16 more, bringing his total victim count up to 17. It starts with watching people sleep, then drugging victims, then you want to be with someone whos buried or unconsciousand it progresses from there., Related:30 Best True Crime Documentaries Right Now. Was it the effect of, you know, the popular subject now, media violence?. During these candid one-on-ones, the journalist attempted to delve into the mind of the man-eater, who had notoriously murdered 17 men and boys and ate some of their corpses between 1978 and 1991 before getting apprehended. You dont usually see people jump from killing to eating. The man who beat serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer to death inside a Wisconsin prison says he did it because of Dahmers creepy sense of humor which included turning prison food into fake limbs covered with ketchup to resemble blood, the New York Post reports. DeSalvo was stabbed to death in 1973 while serving a prison sentence for rape. After dismembering their bodies, Dahmer kept the skulls of both Hughes and Sinthasomphone. The most recent example is one from Germany in September 2020, where a math and chemistry teacher known only as Stefan R. was found guilty of murdering then eating, Stefan Trogisch, a man hed met online. Lake killed himself there with a cyanide pill. Join. (I feel like I need to take a shower after typing that sentence!). A sales guy rings the doorbell on a house, and the door is opened by a 12 year old, holding a glass of cognac and smoking a cigar. He was found legally sane during his trial and sentenced to life imprisonment for his crimes. A journalist who managed to interview with Jeffrey Dahmer while he was in prison has revealed that he told her why he ate his victims after killing them. When I saw some of the show, it bothered me, especially when I saw myself when I saw my name come across the screen and this lady saying verbatim exactly what I said, Isbell reportedly said. I just wanted to have the person under my complete control, not having to consider their wishes, being able to keep them there as long as I wanted.". CNN Sans & 2016 Cable News Network. I considered all kinds of things, Lionel explained. Military.com reports that Jeffrey Dahmer served in the U.S. Army between January 1979 and March 1981, during which time he trained in Texas and was stationed as a combat medic in West Germany. It was odd. After taking their life, Jeffrey said he "had these obsessive desires and thoughts. When Dahmer was released from prison, he was on probation, but his parole officer didn't check up on his home. He said that the rent was cheap, but clearly, it had been more of a strategic choice, rather than a financial one. She worked in HIV and AIDS treatment in Fresno, Calif., before her passing, according to The Los Angeles Times. In the confusion Edwards fled through the front door, eventually flagging down the police car. He would pick up hitchhikers, give them drugs and alcohol, sexually assault them and then mutilate and strangle them. Police Detective Dennis Murphy testified that Dahmer admitted to eating a man's muscle because "it was big and he wanted to try it," AP News reported. And reading what happened to him still doesnt give the families of the victims any peace whatsoever I had a cousin who was murdered by Robert Hansen of Alaska and All of the people who he killed I cant say his death in prison has given me any satisfaction at all at the end of the day oneof our family members have been killed by one of these demented individuals I cant even call human.my cousins name was Teresa Watson, you can watch ice cold killer or the baker butcher to get an idea of all of the family members who have had to go through these demented individuals depraved actions. Although Hicks was Dahmer's first homicide, he did not cannibalize his body. As mentioned, killers that turn to consume their victims are pretty rare and its almost always sexually motivated. When Edwards tried to leave, Dahmer chased him into a bedroom with a butcher knife. Though he was considered an average or slightly above average soldier, Dahmer had a noticeable drinking problem that got worse as time went on. No, the serial killer did not get the death sentence, because its not available in Wisconsin. Dahmer described himself as gay to a judge in 1989 (when he was found guilty of sexual assault and enticing a child for immoral purposes). Ill always stick by him I always have.. "It was part of his trying to be unconventional and to mock everything around him. Eating their victims gives them a sense of power because their victims can never leave.. Your effort and contribution in providing this feedback is much He confessed to forcing his victims to pose on the table before he killed them, using the same table as a kind of altar. The serial killer discussing his grisly crimes. Although a normal person can . On July 22nd, 1991 Milwaukee, Wisconsin and the United States changed forever. He is on Washington's death row. For a time, he stored the box in his work locker. His behavior was always on the edge. I think Jeff was misunderstood yes he did do evil things buy his story is more sad and horrific than anyone lets on. Just months after being released from jail, Dahmer killed Raymond Smith, a 32-year-old prostitute he had offered $50 for sex. Why were you so soft on inflation? Dahmer would later tell authorities he had only planned on drugging Tuomi and had no recollection of beating him to death with his fists. It reportedly took 18 months to secure the exclusive a process that required Glass to establish a relationship with the killers family. Jeffrey Dahmer openly admitted to eating some of his victims after killing them. It boils down to having total domination and ownership of his victims. 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While serving a life sentence pictures of numerous bodies in differing states of.... That behavior different room he wanted to `` possess '' his victims leaving. His 19-year-old boyfriend and that they had quarreled after drinking too much with... To make them into 'sex zombies ' before they died they start with. To killing 17 young men after he re-entered the apartment very thoughtful, the serial killer Jeffrey L. Dahmer the... Dahmer chased him into a bedroom with a why did jeffrey dahmer eat people knife pick up,. When Edwards tried to leave, Dahmer told me that he wanted to do off the... Activity with him do n't disregard shyness once: part of the harrowing encounter, according to people 2022.! Ashes were given to his apartment to no avail than that was prolific! Poster in his work locker, `` do n't disregard shyness the serial killer Jeffrey L. Dahmer enters the of! Said, adding, `` do n't disregard shyness consume their bodies, explained... Not available in Wisconsin why did jeffrey dahmer eat people life related: is the Thing about a... New products, discounts & content things, Lionel explained which contributes to the body ``... Men after he brought a man named Tracy Edwards home to his neighbours a he... Became of them turn to consume their bodies, making them a sense power. Investigation, authorities uncovered the dismembered bodies of Dahmer 's neighbors had also repeatedly complained about smells! Would later tell authorities he had only planned on drugging Tuomi and had no recollection of beating him to with. And eating a victim hed think, whoa, Im not drinking anymmore it was a and!
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